at what point should a member break away from their current church? what reasons have you used to leave yours in the past?
28 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I think that if you are no long growing then you should find a church that will resume your growth with GOD. I have used Divorce to leave my last church.
leaving is tricky. knowing when its GOD and when its Not. very tricky. sometimes God is growin us when we think we're going backwards.
if church leadership fails to yeild to God, to commit to doing what it take s to move forward, and when it fears losing income, well then maybe it's time to visit the leadership.
I have now left my second church for good reasons. They have judged me for my sins and it is not their place to judge me. Only the Lord will judge me and that is what I want. My past church is all about politics and who has the most $$$$$$$$!!! God can care less who has the most $$$$$. The children of today are so wrapped up in who has this and who has that. Man, come work where I work and you will see regular kids that do not even get close to what some of these kids have. My past church doesnt even let kids into the childrens ministry if their parents are not right there with them. What if that kid just wondered in off the streets and was just looking for a place of comfort and help by confiding in the Lord! Just because he/she doesnt have the good clothes or cell phone and is just struggling to survive day to day, cant be let in to your social click in the church. People need to start hiding behind their own fears and pain and learn to really help someone that actually needs it.
wow jb. lots of steam let out in a positive way. too bad those who need to hear you, wont. still incredible insight to the real lives of everyday common boys and girls. maybe this is where we are christ followers miss Jesus. we forget to look outward. we spend too much time on what we want, rather than what God purposed us for. i'm guilty of this.
You should only leave the church if it is preaching a different gospel than Christ's, allowing sin to be displayed in the church (openly homosexual behavior, unmarried couples living together, etc.), the leadership doing something criminal, and if you are moving away. It may not be the fault of the Church that you are not growing in your faith, it very well may be you. Also, be careful that when you suggest that the leadership is not yielding to God because it may be that they will not yield to you and your pride. As far as judging goes, if you are doing something now and someone tells you it is wrong then they are just calling you out on what you did. If they learned about a past sin and will not let it go, then you should forgive them for their failure to forgive you; if it is one or two people then I would stay, but if it is the whole Church then by all means move on. Yes, God will judge you, but we who are Christians do have the right to judge if we have seen where we fall short and have corrected our behavior through the Lord Jesus Christ. Check out 1st Corinthians Chapter 5 and Matthew 18:15-20 about the judging of members of the Church.
I got a question, why go to church at all? all this talk about changing churchs, why? why not change your attitude. your not going to church for yourself. you are going to church to worship the sovereign God of our universe. its always about us. and never about him.if you change churches because they don't teach solid biblical teachings fine. but why did you start going in the first place?
i started going in the first place because i thought this is what i was supposed to do. now, i go to grow, to refuel, to celebrate jesus with my friends.
to the ANONYMOUS on july 8 - i read the passages, and i totally agree and get what you're saying.
to the ANONYMOUS yesterday and on july 8 , whatdoyouthink about this question? IS CHURCH MEMBERSHIP FOR LIFE? assume one has none of the reasons you penned in the july 8 comment.
"I've. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm." What about God's vision? How sincere were you in listening for God's will? How much of your decision was based upon the bitterness/resentment of not feeling heard rather than hearing the call of God. More importantly, what are you prepared to do in order to fulfill the call God has for your life? Would you give up your own vision and desires to follow him? Can you set aside your pride? It all comes down to submission to Him. Setting aside the WHOLE self. Not just the parts that are convenient. Moses spent fourty years hearding sheep in Midian as God prepared him for his eventual purpose in life. I do not doubt your vision one bit. I would however encourage you to review where you are on God's timetable. Make sure you take NO shortcuts. Submission to leadership is vital. Leadership without proper training is dangerous. Even the great apostle Paul was commissioned by and showed submission to the Church of Antioch(Acts 12:2-3;14:26-27). DON'T SKIP TRAINING CAMP AND DON'T FORGET THE PLAYBOOK!!!
dear anonymous, i'll take these questions ONE BY ONE. How sincere were you in listening for God's will? Very sincere. with a broken heart came i before THE ONE. i silenced the noise, wrote down HIS words. waited too.
How much of your decision was based upon the bitterness / resentment of not feeling heard rather than hearing the call of God. Curious question. However 0% was based on bitterness / resentment. i have no hard feelings. i have sadness to leave my friends, church family. ZERO PERCENT. i heard GOD's voice. i know HIS voice.
More importantly, what are you prepared to do in order to fulfill the call God has for your life?
i'm preparing to empty my dreams, my visions, my goals. i'm preparing to welcome HIS LIGHT into my heart, my thoughts, my motives. i'm preparing by deep sea diving into THE SCRIPTURES. i'm preparing for an incredible adventure. i am decreasing miguel, and trying to replace the space with JESUS.
in short, i am trying to imitate JESUS, and trying to follow HIS steps.
DON'T SKIP TRAINING CAMP AND DON'T FORGET THE PLAYBOOK!!!
thanksgiving for the excellent and sound advice. it seems as if you've seen the hazards of omitting your quote above. again i want to share my appreciation for your candidness.
i feel, oops, miguel is better for having read your blog comments.
still working on getting the "I's" out of God's way.
we launched tribalHD almost 4 weeks ago. this WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED if i was still apart of my former church home. now we can reach people who were not gonna come to my church home. NOW, we will go to them and use their homes. this doesn't answer the blog, per se - but it does show tasty fruit.
You know if you want someone to give you an excuse to leave church then why don't you just tell us? I am the one from July 8th and I really feel bad for you. I think that those who don't like to use the term "christian" and "church" or even don't want to go to church buildings have been given yet another excuse to not go by you. I know youwouldn't leave your wife because you and she didn't see eye to eye on your marriage, so why jump ship on your church? Did you ask the pastor what was going on and why things were stopped when they were? If not, then why don't you go to him and spek with him and get to the bottom of this in a loving way? I am reminded of the church in Acts when the elders wanted to force circumcision on the gentile believers. Of course, one apostle confronted the church in truth and love and the church saw the error and corrected it. Are you disciple enough to do that? Or is this really about you and not God?
dear july 8, sept 29 blogger, i am really grateful for your guidance.
let me introduce myself, my name is miguel a. hernandez.
okay , having said that, may i ask who the "us" is ?
also, your quote ... "I think that those who don't like to use the term "christian" and "church" or even don't want to go to church buildings have been given yet another excuse to not go by you. "
perhaps i need to apologize if the message i've sent is what you described me in your quote above.
so let me clarify, i prefer to use the term CHRIST follower over the word christian (simply because christian no longer holds the same integrity it once did)
i love the word church, i think it's awesome. however, i love word church when it defines THE BODY OF THE ONE, JESUS.
i'm not so enamored with the term, just for the term's sake.
and as for buildings... i'm not sure where i implied this. so for the record ... i love having CHURCH with christians in church buildings. buildings provide so much more opportunities to reach more people and most often in BETTER WAYS.
hey blog readers - i only want RECONCILIATION. A good friend of mine read my comments and she shared with me that it sounded like i was irritated. my apologies... i only want reconciliation. i will be more careful.. so if my words imply retaliation, please forgive me.
The "us" is everyone who reads this "Leaving Church" post and the comments that follow it. Yes, church is not a building it is the "Body of Christ" so be careful not to have the body war against its members (the fingers against the eyes or the lungs against the heart). Brother remember that "christian" still holds the greatest integrity because it means I am a sinner and I need Jesus to reconcile me to God because I can not ever on my own earn my way into God's favor. I would agree, though, that many people say they are christians yet do not truly believe the statement I just made about what a "christian" is. As far as lifetime member of church goes, I believe it is for life. Look at my July 8th posting for the reasons a person "I believe" may leave a church. I also think that you can go to another church when God moves you because He has given you a job to do in that church. Be careful, though, if it is not of God then you may cause yourself and others a great deal of strife that was not of God but of Satan. This is part of the reason we have so many denominations. Some want christian rock while others want the old time gospels, some want pianos while others want acapella singing. These kinds of things are matters of taste and really only edify the believer, but do not necessarily edify the God who saves us. I want unity in our faith and I want us to stop transferring our letters back and forth between churches because (usually) our feelings get hurt. Again, I ask this of you only as a friend and the desire to find unity and to reconcile your situation: I know you wouldn't leave your wife because you and she didn't see eye to eye on your marriage, so why jump ship on your church? Did you ask the pastor what was going on and why things were stopped when they were? If not, then why don't you go to him and speak with him and get to the bottom of this in a loving way? I am reminded of the church in Acts when the elders wanted to force circumcision on the gentile believers. Of course, one apostle confronted the church in truth and love and the church saw the error and corrected it. Did you do that? I truly hope that God continues to bless you and your family and those that are in your sphere of influence.
"hey july 8 knowitall, would you give me an excuse to leave my church? I'm not going much anyways, and maybe your excuse would sound better than mine.
October 11, 2008 4:10 PM"
How did you know? That's me...knowitall. ;) Sorry, no excuses for you. You need to go to church. Samwise knows my words are true. He has commented in the past about people dating other churches. Check out the Bible and you will see that my words are true. Insulting me will not make truth any less true.
I forgive you.
Signed,
knowitall
P.S.:Check out the book of ACTS and see all the times people moved their letters from one church to another and/or the reasons they left to go to another church.
to the oct 11th anonymous, not the knowitall anonymous, i'd have to agree with the going to church part.
so much easier to walk a straighter line when you have brothers and sisters as guard rails. i know i need em. my walk is often not straight. praise Jesus for grace, right?
and please no insults. that rarely helps, in fact it probably never helps.
moving church letters in the book of acts. i don't think it's in there. neither is 3 points and a poem. or membership rolls, at least i don't think so.
nor is there a choir, or guitars, or parking lot attendants, marquee signs, powerpoint or a lot of other things we find in the 21st century church. so where do you establish this moving your letter rhetoric? i'm confused, friend.
its now been about 7 weeks tomorrow that i have not attended the church where my letter resides.
i'd like to update and produce a clearer explanation of why i'm attending colonial bapt and not westside bapt.
God has given me unique gifts, incredible for a guy with so many flaws. God has gifted me with a set of communication skills that have shown fruit , including fruit in the people in my day to day life, and has placed my feet on a different path than the one i was on. there path is not wrong, it's just not the one i'm on currently.
looking back i see how God was shaping, and pruning my GOD SIZED PLAN. looking forward it seems a wonderful adventure awaits.
don't wanna miss a thing... so i'm gonna do my best to be an IMITATOR OF JESUS. for now, my church attendance is different than my letter. however my mission field is my neighbor. thanksgiving for the conversation opportunity.
Why leave a church because they were not "using your gifts??" If you leave that church and start going to another one w/o moving your letter then what you are doing is joining a "cult" by not have a home church.
in reference to the "using gifts" friend, i was created for greatness. and so were you.
so i'm going to try to maximize all i can, while i can. sounds better than me just sitting on the can, right? this "can" is explosive , powerful, God-given, God Ordained, & God deserves HIS Full Return on His Investment.
that's Another reason WHY I AM NO LONGER AT WESTSIDE.
nearly six months has passed since my last comment .
in this span, i have built new friendships at colonial. I have taught sunday school lessons twice. I have had the priveledge of recieving one of the greatest compliments i HAVE EVER RECIEVED , and it was from my sunday school teacher. i have seen GOD move in and thru men. i have been a witness to men changing bad habits for godly ones. i have learned how to focus more clearly and i have used the word, "i" 9 times, including the last one. and this guy doesn't feel bad at all. PRAISE JESUS .
28 comments:
I think that if you are no long growing then you should find a church that will resume your growth with GOD. I have used Divorce to leave my last church.
leaving is tricky. knowing when its GOD and when its Not. very tricky.
sometimes God is growin us when we think we're going backwards.
if church leadership fails to yeild to God, to commit to doing what it take s to move forward, and when it fears losing income, well then maybe it's time to visit the leadership.
I have now left my second church for good reasons. They have judged me for my sins and it is not their place to judge me. Only the Lord will judge me and that is what I want. My past church is all about politics and who has the most $$$$$$$$!!! God can care less who has the most $$$$$. The children of today are so wrapped up in who has this and who has that. Man, come work where I work and you will see regular kids that do not even get close to what some of these kids have. My past church doesnt even let kids into the childrens ministry if their parents are not right there with them. What if that kid just wondered in off the streets and was just looking for a place of comfort and help by confiding in the Lord! Just because he/she doesnt have the good clothes or cell phone and is just struggling to survive day to day, cant be let in to your social click in the church. People need to start hiding behind their own fears and pain and learn to really help someone that actually needs it.
Sorry for the venting!!!
Honestly JB
wow jb.
lots of steam let out in a positive way. too bad those who need to hear you, wont.
still incredible insight to the real lives of everyday common boys and girls.
maybe this is where we are christ followers miss Jesus. we forget to look outward. we spend too much time on what we want, rather than what God purposed us for.
i'm guilty of this.
You should only leave the church if it is preaching a different gospel than Christ's, allowing sin to be displayed in the church (openly homosexual behavior, unmarried couples living together, etc.), the leadership doing something criminal, and if you are moving away. It may not be the fault of the Church that you are not growing in your faith, it very well may be you. Also, be careful that when you suggest that the leadership is not yielding to God because it may be that they will not yield to you and your pride. As far as judging goes, if you are doing something now and someone tells you it is wrong then they are just calling you out on what you did. If they learned about a past sin and will not let it go, then you should forgive them for their failure to forgive you; if it is one or two people then I would stay, but if it is the whole Church then by all means move on. Yes, God will judge you, but we who are Christians do have the right to judge if we have seen where we fall short and have corrected our behavior through the Lord Jesus Christ. Check out 1st Corinthians Chapter 5 and Matthew 18:15-20 about the judging of members of the Church.
I got a question, why go to church at all? all this talk about changing churchs, why? why not change your attitude. your not going to church for yourself. you are going to church to worship the sovereign God of our universe. its always about us. and never about him.if you change churches because they don't teach solid biblical teachings fine. but why did you start going in the first place?
i started going in the first place because i thought this is what i was supposed to do.
now, i go to grow, to refuel, to celebrate jesus with my friends.
to the ANONYMOUS on july 8 - i read the passages, and i totally agree and get what you're saying.
to the ANONYMOUS yesterday and on july 8 , whatdoyouthink about this question?
IS CHURCH MEMBERSHIP FOR LIFE?
assume one has none of the reasons you penned in the july 8 comment.
i've recently moved on from my church home. in fact i'm two weeks removed.
i chose to leave primarily because of what i believe.
i believe my vision for my former church was in contrast to the vision that the staff believed was right for the church.
GOD invested a HUGE amount in the church. i believe the church must
show a HUGE return on investment.
i no longer felt free to worship THE ONE, the way i believe i was created to.
so ... i'm in search of decreasing ME, so that HE may Increase.
"I've. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm." What about God's vision? How sincere were you in listening for God's will? How much of your decision was based upon the bitterness/resentment of not feeling heard rather than hearing the call of God. More importantly, what are you prepared to do in order to fulfill the call God has for your life? Would you give up your own vision and desires to follow him? Can you set aside your pride? It all comes down to submission to Him. Setting aside the WHOLE self. Not just the parts that are convenient. Moses spent fourty years hearding sheep in Midian as God prepared him for his eventual purpose in life. I do not doubt your vision one bit. I would however encourage you to review where you are on God's timetable. Make sure you take NO shortcuts. Submission to leadership is vital. Leadership without proper training is dangerous. Even the great apostle Paul was commissioned by and showed submission to the Church of Antioch(Acts 12:2-3;14:26-27). DON'T SKIP TRAINING CAMP AND DON'T FORGET THE PLAYBOOK!!!
thanksgiving to you, anonymous.
i sincerely am grateful that you logged on to blog.
it's ALWAYS great to have a new blogger, or a return blogger.
again thanks for sharing your heart
i will post another comment to try to answer your questions
dear anonymous,
i'll take these questions ONE BY ONE.
How sincere were you in listening for God's will? Very sincere. with a broken heart came i before THE ONE. i silenced the noise, wrote down HIS words. waited too.
How much of your decision was based upon the bitterness / resentment of not feeling heard rather than hearing the call of God.
Curious question. However 0% was based on bitterness / resentment.
i have no hard feelings. i have sadness to leave my friends, church
family. ZERO PERCENT. i heard GOD's voice. i know HIS voice.
More importantly, what are you prepared to do in order to fulfill the call God has for your life?
i'm preparing to empty my dreams, my visions, my goals. i'm preparing
to welcome HIS LIGHT into my heart, my thoughts, my motives.
i'm preparing by deep sea diving into THE SCRIPTURES. i'm preparing
for an incredible adventure. i am decreasing miguel, and trying to replace the space with JESUS.
in short, i am trying to imitate JESUS, and trying to follow HIS steps.
DON'T SKIP TRAINING CAMP AND DON'T FORGET THE PLAYBOOK!!!
thanksgiving for the excellent and sound advice. it seems as if you've seen the hazards of omitting your quote above. again i want to share my appreciation for your candidness.
i feel, oops, miguel is better for having read your blog comments.
still working on getting the "I's" out of God's way.
we launched tribalHD almost 4 weeks ago.
this WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED if i was still apart of my former church home.
now we can reach people who were not gonna come to my church home.
NOW, we will go to them and use their homes.
this doesn't answer the blog, per se - but it does show tasty fruit.
You know if you want someone to give you an excuse to leave church then why don't you just tell us? I am the one from July 8th and I really feel bad for you. I think that those who don't like to use the term "christian" and "church" or even don't want to go to church buildings have been given yet another excuse to not go by you.
I know youwouldn't leave your wife because you and she didn't see eye to eye on your marriage, so why jump ship on your church?
Did you ask the pastor what was going on and why things were stopped when they were? If not, then why don't you go to him and spek with him and get to the bottom of this in a loving way? I am reminded of the church in Acts when the elders wanted to force circumcision on the gentile believers. Of course, one apostle confronted the church in truth and love and the church saw the error and corrected it.
Are you disciple enough to do that? Or is this really about you and not God?
dear july 8, sept 29 blogger,
i am really grateful for your guidance.
let me introduce myself, my name is miguel a. hernandez.
okay , having said that, may i ask who the "us" is ?
also, your quote ...
"I think that those who don't like to use the term "christian" and "church" or even don't want to go to church buildings have been given yet another excuse to not go by you. "
perhaps i need to apologize if the message i've sent is what you described me in your quote above.
so let me clarify, i prefer to use the term CHRIST follower over the word christian (simply because christian no longer holds the same integrity it once did)
i love the word church, i think it's awesome. however, i love word church when it defines THE BODY OF THE ONE, JESUS.
i'm not so enamored with the term, just for the term's sake.
and as for buildings... i'm not sure where i implied this. so for the record ... i love having CHURCH with christians in church buildings. buildings provide so much more opportunities to reach more people and most often in BETTER WAYS.
THANKSGIVING, please continue the conversation...
hey blog readers -
i only want RECONCILIATION.
A good friend of mine read my comments and she shared with me that it sounded like i was irritated.
my apologies... i only want reconciliation. i will be more careful..
so if my words imply retaliation, please forgive me.
i want to exalt THE ONE.
sorry...
IS CHURCH MEMBERSHIP FOR LIFE?
why didn't anyone try to answer this question?
I'm very interested. Please somebody respond. Thanks.
The "us" is everyone who reads this "Leaving Church" post and the comments that follow it.
Yes, church is not a building it is the "Body of Christ" so be careful not to have the body war against its members (the fingers against the eyes or the lungs against the heart).
Brother remember that "christian" still holds the greatest integrity because it means I am a sinner and I need Jesus to reconcile me to God because I can not ever on my own earn my way into God's favor. I would agree, though, that many people say they are christians yet do not truly believe the statement I just made about what a "christian" is.
As far as lifetime member of church goes, I believe it is for life. Look at my July 8th posting for the reasons a person "I believe" may leave a church. I also think that you can go to another church when God moves you because He has given you a job to do in that church. Be careful, though, if it is not of God then you may cause yourself and others a great deal of strife that was not of God but of Satan.
This is part of the reason we have so many denominations. Some want christian rock while others want the old time gospels, some want pianos while others want acapella singing. These kinds of things are matters of taste and really only edify the believer, but do not necessarily edify the God who saves us. I want unity in our faith and I want us to stop transferring our letters back and forth between churches because (usually) our feelings get hurt.
Again, I ask this of you only as a friend and the desire to find unity and to reconcile your situation: I know you wouldn't leave your wife because you and she didn't see eye to eye on your marriage, so why jump ship on your church?
Did you ask the pastor what was going on and why things were stopped when they were? If not, then why don't you go to him and speak with him and get to the bottom of this in a loving way? I am reminded of the church in Acts when the elders wanted to force circumcision on the gentile believers. Of course, one apostle confronted the church in truth and love and the church saw the error and corrected it.
Did you do that?
I truly hope that God continues to bless you and your family and those that are in your sphere of influence.
hey july 8 knowitall,
would you give me an excuse to leave my church?
I'm not going much anyways, and maybe your excuse would sound better than mine.
"hey july 8 knowitall,
would you give me an excuse to leave my church?
I'm not going much anyways, and maybe your excuse would sound better than mine.
October 11, 2008 4:10 PM"
How did you know? That's me...knowitall. ;)
Sorry, no excuses for you. You need to go to church.
Samwise knows my words are true. He has commented in the past about people dating other churches.
Check out the Bible and you will see that my words are true. Insulting me will not make truth any less true.
I forgive you.
Signed,
knowitall
P.S.:Check out the book of ACTS and see all the times people moved their letters from one church to another and/or the reasons they left to go to another church.
to the oct 11th anonymous, not the knowitall anonymous, i'd have to agree with the going to church part.
so much easier to walk a straighter line when you have brothers and sisters as guard rails. i know i need em. my walk is often not straight.
praise Jesus for grace, right?
and please no insults. that rarely helps, in fact it probably never helps.
moving church letters in the book of acts. i don't think it's in there. neither is 3 points and a poem. or membership rolls, at least i don't think so.
nor is there a choir, or guitars, or parking lot attendants, marquee signs, powerpoint or a lot of other things we find in the 21st century church.
so where do you establish this moving your letter rhetoric?
i'm confused, friend.
its now been about 7 weeks tomorrow that i have not attended the church where my letter resides.
i'd like to update and produce a clearer explanation of why i'm attending colonial bapt and not westside bapt.
God has given me unique gifts, incredible for a guy with so many flaws. God has gifted me with a set of communication skills that have shown fruit , including fruit in the people in my day to day life, and has placed my feet on a different path than the one i was on.
there path is not wrong, it's just not the one i'm on currently.
looking back i see how God was shaping, and pruning my GOD SIZED PLAN. looking forward it seems a wonderful adventure awaits.
don't wanna miss a thing... so i'm gonna do my best to be an IMITATOR OF JESUS. for now, my church attendance is different than my letter. however my mission field is my neighbor.
thanksgiving for the conversation opportunity.
Why leave a church because they were not "using your gifts??" If you leave that church and start going to another one w/o moving your letter then what you are doing is joining a "cult" by not have a home church.
Currently attending colonial for the past 8 straight weeks.
loving it. loving it . loving it.
a change in letters will come, however, where does this "cult" verbage come from?
are you implying that because i'm not attending WESTSIDE, and have NOT moved my letter that i am attending, if you will, COLONIAL CULT BAPTIST CHURCH?
in reference to the "using gifts"
friend, i was created for greatness. and so were you.
so i'm going to try to maximize all i can, while i can. sounds better than me just sitting on the can, right?
this "can" is explosive , powerful, God-given, God Ordained, & God deserves HIS Full Return on His Investment.
that's Another reason WHY I AM NO LONGER AT WESTSIDE.
nearly six months has passed since my last comment .
in this span, i have built new friendships at colonial.
I have taught sunday school lessons twice.
I have had the priveledge of recieving one of the greatest compliments i HAVE EVER RECIEVED , and it was from my sunday school teacher.
i have seen GOD move in and thru men. i have been a witness to men changing bad habits for godly ones.
i have learned how to focus more clearly and i have used the word, "i" 9 times, including the last one. and this guy doesn't feel bad at all. PRAISE JESUS .
I AM CURIOUS WHY SOMEBODY WHOULD LEAVE A CHURCH TO GO TO ANOTHER ONE.
WHY NOT JUST LEAVE?
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